Comments - The Only Antidote (Part Three) - New Foundation Fellowship2024-03-29T08:31:01Zhttp://nffquaker.org/profiles/comment/feed?attachedTo=6286598%3ABlogPost%3A25307&xn_auth=noYou've rightly identified whe…tag:nffquaker.org,2015-08-10:6286598:Comment:253112015-08-10T12:38:01.121ZPatricia Dallmannhttp://nffquaker.org/profile/PatriciaDallmann
<p>You've rightly identified where the true battle is joined: not directly with an (or the) adversary through using our human resources of reason or guile, but indirectly through receiving the power of God to guide us through whatever abuse, injustice, and aggression we are encountering. When Fox speaks of the Church hearing, obeying, and suffering together, he was pointing to this process, which does involve suffering; that is the cross. But we can be sure that the more firmly we hold to the…</p>
<p>You've rightly identified where the true battle is joined: not directly with an (or the) adversary through using our human resources of reason or guile, but indirectly through receiving the power of God to guide us through whatever abuse, injustice, and aggression we are encountering. When Fox speaks of the Church hearing, obeying, and suffering together, he was pointing to this process, which does involve suffering; that is the cross. But we can be sure that the more firmly we hold to the true solution to the problem of evil in the world, the more we are enabled to withstand that suffering by Christ's immediate presence being known within.</p>
<p>I came across a vignette of a saying that was attributed to Jesus that illustrates this right approach to handling evil:</p>
<p><em>One day Jesus and his disciples passed a man who spoke evil of them in a loud voice; but Jesus spoke only good in return. And when his disciples asked him why he spoke good to him who spoke evil, he replied: "Each gives out of his store."</em></p>
<p>As we receive the power of God, we have within us the "store" to overcome evil. </p> Something further. Those who…tag:nffquaker.org,2015-08-10:6286598:Comment:256082015-08-10T11:50:06.142ZEllis Heinhttp://nffquaker.org/profile/EllisHein
<p>Something further. Those who live by hearing the voice of Christ deal with the problem of evil differently than those who live in the culture of deafness. It is faith that overcomes the world. Those in the culture of deafness do not have faith for faith comes by hearing the voice of Christ. Those in the culture of deafness have no resource but to "fight evil with evil," which means that the one that wields the greatest evil rules the day. Those who live by hearing the voice of Christ, live…</p>
<p>Something further. Those who live by hearing the voice of Christ deal with the problem of evil differently than those who live in the culture of deafness. It is faith that overcomes the world. Those in the culture of deafness do not have faith for faith comes by hearing the voice of Christ. Those in the culture of deafness have no resource but to "fight evil with evil," which means that the one that wields the greatest evil rules the day. Those who live by hearing the voice of Christ, live in the virtue of that life and power that take away the occasion of war from the heart. Living in this life and power, temptation is not effective for our eye is upon Christ who existed before the tempter was. Before this life and power, evil cannot stand, but is overcome. It is not we who overcome evil, but the power of God within us that overcomes. It is not we who receive the acclaim of conquering heroes, but all the glory belongs to Christ.</p> No, Pat, I did not intend to…tag:nffquaker.org,2015-08-09:6286598:Comment:254052015-08-09T20:51:37.211ZEllis Heinhttp://nffquaker.org/profile/EllisHein
<p>No, Pat, I did not intend to suggest there was any discrepancy between your understanding presented in the paper and the early Friends claim that we are to live in the kingdom of God now. My only intention was to be brief and keep my comment to a comment. I am working on an article that deals with the relevancy of Fox's and the early Friends message to us today. The insight I had while working on that was that we, like those in Fox's day, live in a culture of deafness where people (cultural…</p>
<p>No, Pat, I did not intend to suggest there was any discrepancy between your understanding presented in the paper and the early Friends claim that we are to live in the kingdom of God now. My only intention was to be brief and keep my comment to a comment. I am working on an article that deals with the relevancy of Fox's and the early Friends message to us today. The insight I had while working on that was that we, like those in Fox's day, live in a culture of deafness where people (cultural Christianity I think was your term) neither wait for nor expect to hear the voice of God speaking to us demanding from us an obedient response. Between this culture and Satan's claim of authority and ownership there is a treaty of peace. Those in this culture can "worship" and "believe in" God without there being any confrontation between these two kingdoms. But when we come to the condition Fox described where we know that we have no resources within ourselves or from things outside us to help us and encounter the living God who proclaims, "There is one, even Christ Jesus, that can speak to thy condition..." That culture of deafness and that peace treaty are shattered. The world is turned upside down and we come to know the kingdoms of this world to become the kingdoms of our God. Cultural Christianity would put this off until some cataclysmic event in the future. But not even Jesus accepted Satan's claim though he did not argue the point. Jesus told Pilate, "You have no authority over me except it be granted you by my Father." So my point was to bring together these two concepts that had been separate, points which belong together even though I have been blind to them.</p> Thanks for your comment, Elli…tag:nffquaker.org,2015-08-09:6286598:Comment:255042015-08-09T13:39:41.680ZPatricia Dallmannhttp://nffquaker.org/profile/PatriciaDallmann
<p>Thanks for your comment, Ellis. I am uncertain about whether you intended to suggest that there was a discrepancy between my understanding presented in the paper and the early Friends claim that we are to live in the kingdom of God now.</p>
<p>We live in the kingdom when we are in right relationship with God, that is, the hearing/obeying relationship of the creature to the Creator. My paper described the key elements of this relationship as presented in the Mt. 4 story of Christ's…</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment, Ellis. I am uncertain about whether you intended to suggest that there was a discrepancy between my understanding presented in the paper and the early Friends claim that we are to live in the kingdom of God now.</p>
<p>We live in the kingdom when we are in right relationship with God, that is, the hearing/obeying relationship of the creature to the Creator. My paper described the key elements of this relationship as presented in the Mt. 4 story of Christ's temptation. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, though we are empowered to live in this kingdom now, that does not preclude Satan's continuing to operate by "temptation, which shall come upon all the world" (Rev. 3:10), the verse I used at the start of my paper. </p> Pat, I am glad to again have…tag:nffquaker.org,2015-08-09:6286598:Comment:253092015-08-09T12:34:47.509ZEllis Heinhttp://nffquaker.org/profile/EllisHein
<p>Pat, I am glad to again have the opportunity of considering the things you presented at the NFF gathering this summer. I want to make one comment. You bring out the temptation of Jesus in which Satan claims ownership of and administrative authority over the kingdoms of this world. The message of Fox and the early Friends ushers in the kingdom of God wherein we hear the proclamation of the Seventh Angel, "The kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of our God and His Christ, who will…</p>
<p>Pat, I am glad to again have the opportunity of considering the things you presented at the NFF gathering this summer. I want to make one comment. You bring out the temptation of Jesus in which Satan claims ownership of and administrative authority over the kingdoms of this world. The message of Fox and the early Friends ushers in the kingdom of God wherein we hear the proclamation of the Seventh Angel, "The kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of our God and His Christ, who will rule for ever. " Rev. chap. 11. The gospel calls us to make this triumphant-kingdom-of-God our habitation now.</p>