Ellis Hein's Blog (116)

Even though Fox spoke and wrote about the spirit of God, at times calling it the Holy Spirit, or the Holy Ghost, what he has to say and how it relates to the gospel is all Hebrew, there is not a shred of similarity with Holy Spirit Christianity. For example: "For though I read the scriptures that spake of Christ and of God, yet I knew Him not but by revelation as he who hath the key did open and as the Father of life drew me to his son by his spirit." (Works, Vol. I, p. 75) Fox asserts that…

Some years ago, while attending a lecture series given by Lewis Benson, I asked how we could convince Holy-Spirit-Christians that what Fox was saying was substantially different than what they were saying. Lewis replied that, given my background from evangelical Christianity, he hoped that I could provide the answer. I could not then articulate what I felt to be a great difference between Fox's proclamation that Christ has come to teach His people Himself and the gospel of Holy Spirit…

I have had a sense that this discussion about the early Friends not practicing the ritual of taking the bread and wine is not complete, but I have not seen where it should go until now. We have said, "Paul wrote..." and "Paul must have meant..." in our grapplings with the subject. We have looked at various passages from the works of Fox showing how scripture had been opened to him. This morning I was shown what to do with all this.

There is a beautiful passage from Vol. 4 of Fox's…

Here are the quotes from Lewis Benson that deal with how Christian community stands in relation to the Scriptures. I wish I could have quoted the entire works I cite, but space only allows excerpts. However, I encourage all to go and read the original articles by Lewis.

A Universal Christian Faith by Lewis Benson, p. 48

When the church declines or disappears from the historical scene, the problem of renewal is…

The following list of references are not meant to be exhaustive, merely representative. Most are organized by stating a principle (P.) and an answer (A.). Other places have an objection (O.) and answer. These are mostly passages from Fox's answers to anit-Quaker tracts and books. 

I promised Jim Wilson that I would include some quotes from Lewis Benson. Those will appear in a separate posting. This one is a bit long as it is.

vol. iii, p. 152

P. He saith, ' They lay in wait…

As I promised, here is a beginning of sharing references from Fox. This one is entitled A Distinction Between The Two Suppers and is about 6 pages long, so I have placed in the Online Resources under the Resources tab above. You can either go there for it or use this link: http://nffquaker.org/page/a-distinction-between-the-two-suppers. It is a rich…

In a discussion on Bill Carsley's last post, two people have raised questions about how to reconcile George Fox and the apostle Paul concerning the issue of partaking of the bread and wine, which most of Christendom has practiced while Fox and the early Quakers did not. Would it not open an avenue for the rest of Christendom to receive what Fox and the early Quakers had to say if these two positions could be reconciled? The following words have risen in my heart in response.



There…

Here is another example of how Fox viewed the so-called Sacraments, practiced by most of Chrstendom. This is also an example of how Fox understood the relationship between the people of God and Christ. The quote below is taken from The Works of George Fox, Vol. 1, pp. 364-366.

I was moved by the power and spirit of the Lord to open unto them the ' promise of God, that it was made to the seed, not to seeds, as many, but to one; which seed was Christ: and that all people,…

I am often running into the notion that in order to achieve salvation, in order to come into the presence of Christ, we must somehow rid ourselves of all things physical. Yesterday, in worship, the following came to me.

We do not come into the presence of Christ by getting rid of the physical and its distractions. Rather the presence of Christ comes to us to make the flesh holy and to bring all creation into holy order.

Ellis 

In case anyone is looking for the posts and comments recently put on this site by Keith Saylor, I have removed them and have deleted Keith's membership. His postings were not in accordance with the purpose of our website. He has agreed with me that he did not fit with the NFF. So, we part ways. 

I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause anyone looking for Keith's posts or for comments made in response to his posts.

Ellis Hein

The following epistle of Fox's has a lot to say in answer to the seminar John Gibbs reported on. This epistle clearly points out the difference between the path the early Friends were walking and the "Different Paths..." concept.

FRIENDS,

In the power of life and wisdom, and dread of the Lord God of life, and heaven and earth, dwell; that in the wisdom of God over all ye may be preserved, and be a terror to all the adversaries of God, and a dread, answering that of God in them…

Are you satisfied knowing you or your group proclaims a Christian message rather than the Christian message? The difference between that indefinite article "a" and the definite article "the" is profound. And no, claiming to have the Christian message is not arrogance. It is about our position before Christ and the role he plays in the life of the individual and the life of the Church. A brief listing in the table below makes clear the…

I feel somewhat constrained to share with you-all an incident that portrays the Lord's protection and care. Yesterday I was hurriedly picking cucumbers; I was late and had a lot to get done before I could stop for the day. Consequently I was trying to be quick while at the same time being careful with the vines. My hand parted the leaves in front of me and there at my fingertips lay a coiled rattlesnake. The snake did not move as I withdrew my hand and my person. I had been working near it…

The following material is taken from an ongoing conversation. But even so, it seemed worth publishing here.

Hello ****,

In our conversations, something has been winking at me off and on. But I have not captured it until now. In all our discussions, I have lost sight of the most important aspect. I apologize for my slowness here.  

What I have neglected concerns the offices or functions of Christ. In so far as I have read and have conversed with others, this is not a…

Among other things, I am a woodturner. From experience, I can state that it is possible to do a lot of things with dull tools. But if you ever come to use a properly sharpened tool, you will never again be satisfied with dullness.

This is the distinction between a life lived hearing and obeying the voice of Christ, the prophet like Moses whom God has raised up, and a life lived subjugated to any man-made discipline you care to name.

The reason for the difference is that hearing…

What seemed to me to be the best insight during our Fox Reading Conference Call came in response to a statement Fox made in Sermon III regarding walking by faith rather than by sight. Peter Glass pointed out that, contrary to our logic, faith is a stronger, more reliable sense than sight. This must be understood in the context of the sermon we were reading where this faith is the gift of God, written on the heart by Jesus; not the result of my efforts to believe something…

John the Baptist's announcement concerning the Lamb of God, in John 1, came in the midst of a culture of sacrifice and ritual; a culture heavily invested in the perpetual sense of guilt before God and the continual need to appease God. In John, chapter 2, Jesus overthrows money-changer's tables and drives out the merchants of sacrifice along with all their animals. His accusation of making "my Father's house a house of merchandise" has to do with the culture and economy of sin.

Man…

I have never been able to find any significance to the account of the marriage feast in John 2. This morning, I read again the portion of scripture and suddenly I saw. The steward of the marriage feast said to the waiter who brought him the water-now-wine, "Everyone first serves the good wine, and when people have drunk that, then brings out the not as good. But you have served the best last." (my paraphrase) The writer inserts the comment, "This first sign Jesus performed in…

What is the distinction between the believing that produces the witness within and the belief that is Pharisee-like? The true believing is an active acceptance of the Light of Christ, the life in Him, as our living guide. The Pharisee-like belief is an acceptance of certain propositions while at the same time we hide ourselves from the revealing light of Christ that would make our true condition manifest.

What is the witness within that results from believing the…

We had a very precious time last evening on the monthly Fox reading conference call. We began on Sermon III from That Thy Candles May Always be Burning.

One of the things we spoke about concerned the word "Lord". The historical meaning of Lord is the supplier of bread. Much of what Fox had to say in the opening portions of this sermon has to do with The Supplier of Bread and what comes of eating that Bread.

What do the professors feed on? The rudiments of…